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    Highlights of the ICANNWatch Archive
    (June 1999 - March 2001)

    This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
    Using WHOIS Policy To Snag Good Domain Names | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 27 comments | Search Discussion
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    Re: Using WHOIS Policy To Snag Good Domain Names
    by fnord (reversethis-{moc.oohay} {ta} {k2yorg}) on Thursday September 05 2002, @11:20AM (#9077)
    User #2810 Info
    Richard Henderson wrote Dan Halloran and others at ICANN regarding ICANN accredited registrar YesNic over four months ago (with no action or even response to date). Some of their questionable activities have been publicized for months before that. Now comes an allegation that YesNic is shielding WHOIS information and offering to act as a broker to someone who wants the name. Even VeriSign isn't doing this SFAIK. So where is ICANN when it comes to dealing with longstanding complaints of multiple apparent breaches against a registar? I guess it's just not politically wise or newsworthy enough for ICANN to threaten YesNic with disaccreditation. -g

    whois -h whois.crsnic.net joesworld.com

    Domain Name: JOESWORLD.COM
    Registrar: YESNIC CO. LTD.
    Whois Server: whois.yesnic.com
    Referral URL: http://www.yesnic.com
    Name Server: No nameserver
    Updated Date: 16-apr-2002

    whois -h whois.yesnic.com joesworld.com

    No record found for domain joesworld.com.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re: Using WHOIS Policy To Snag Good Domain Names
    by fnord (reversethis-{moc.oohay} {ta} {k2yorg}) on Wednesday September 11 2002, @04:43AM (#9152)
    User #2810 Info
    Life follows art. -g
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Don't believe someone for his pretty face!
    by isquat on Thursday September 05 2002, @03:08AM (#9049)
    User #3363 Info | http://i.squ.at/
    "You mischaracterize the purpose behind ICANN's letter to Verisign."

    Really? Do you think that ICANN can actually take away the accreditation of Verisign? Verisign will sue ICANN to death. Touton knows that. So there must be something else behind this than either the wish to be unkind to Verisign or the wish to make whois more accurate.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    by RFassett on Thursday September 05 2002, @03:56AM (#9052)
    User #3226 Info | http://www.enum.info
    .....it was inevitable that policy issues being "spelled out" in agreements ICANN has made with both registries and registrars would become challenged by the very parties that "mutually agreed". The act of centrally regulating the market place is the issue, to me. ICANN has taken the entrusted role of gatekeeper to influence regulatory language in its agreements. To point back to these agreements as justification is circular logic given the assumption ICANN is not a regulator to private business, as it claims not to be, and has overstepped its scope in its contractural agreements. Where does the need to properly coordinate technical stability of DNS end and issues of policy begin? I now quote my most favorite quote from ICANN thus far in 2002:

    "there are other kinds of stability than just technical stability"

    Think about what this quote says (or does not say) and then think about how ICANN should look to keep itself out of legal liability in contracts it has with registries and registrars. The first step, to me, would be for ICANN to clearly define where its responsibility in coordinating technical stability ends and issues of policy begin. To my knowledge, this has not been done making certain language in its contracts inevitable to challenge by the parties that "mutually agreed".
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re: Using WHOIS Policy To Snag Good Domain Names
    by PeterBarron (pebarron@hotmail.com) on Thursday September 05 2002, @04:10AM (#9053)
    User #3240 Info | http://www.icannwatch.org/
    I would think that deletion due to bad data, and deletion due to expiration are two different things.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re: Using WHOIS Policy To Snag Good Domain Names
    by jberryhill on Thursday September 05 2002, @04:40AM (#9055)
    User #3013 Info
    Bitter? I'm amused.

    In point of fact, I have no idea what is the purpose behind ICANN's letter to Verisign, but I doubt that the motivation had anything to do with improving services provided to domain name registrants or enhancing "stability" of the internet domain name system. Registrars are required to do a lot of things in accordance with the registrar accreditation agreement. They often do not. There is not a week which goes by where I am not a witness to unauthorized registrar transfers, domain hi-jackings, or other inexplicable registrar behavior in violation of the registrar accreditation agreement. As I noted, there have always been registrars who followed the 15 day verification policy, and it was a useful policy for dealing with certain spammers and some cybersquatters who used false contact data. If you provided the information to the registrar, along with some indication of what motivated the report, many registrars would exercise reasonable discretion in evaluating the report.

    With the report form at internic.net, what we now have is a tool for unanticipated gamesmanship, especially in combination with the WLS. You can also use the report form for sending spam, since one function of the form is to send an email message to whatever email address is typed into the "reporter" field.

    And don't kid yourself if you don't believe there are eager-beaver lawyers out there who consider failure to respond to a cease-and-desist letter, or to return their emails and phone calls, as a positive sign that the contact data is "bad". Some lawyers don't understand their relative social unpopularity, I suppose....

    ICANN has indeed come out swinging at Verisign, but why THIS issue, and why now? Certainly this swing is not directed at routine policy violations that relate to issues of importance to domain name registrants (e.g. transfers, slamming, and hi-jacking). It is a characteristic feature of ICANN that the interests of domain name registrants are a distant runner behind policies designed to satisfy those interests which have a seat at the policy table, and also behind ICANN's own self preservation instincts.

    Please don't get me wrong. Any hint from ICANN that they might someday have an interest in actually seeing whether people abide by their ICANN contracts is a welcome movement. Again, I have seen registrar representatives expressly laugh a the idea that ICANN would enforce accreditation terms, including a registrar who just last week told Mr. Touton personally what he could do with his interpretation of ICANN transfer policy.

    Maybe I am too pessimistic, and maybe next week ICANN will turn its enforcement attention to terms of the accreditation agreement which are regularly ignored and which, if enforced, would inure to the benefit of domain name registrants. But I am not holding my breath.

    In the meantime, however, we at least have the entertainment of playing WHOIS "gotcha" with people who are having problems updating their contact data. And I will keep beating the same dead horse that legitimate government is one which derives its authority from those governed. I'm not talking about some amorphous category of "internet users". Domain name registrants have no place at the very table at which the terms of their contracts are negotiated. And it will be a cold day in a warm place before ICANN enforces any of the conditions designed to protect those few interests of domain name registrants which are reflected in the relevant contracts. I will reserve the registrar data escrow rant for later, but it is a sure bet that one of the non-escrowed registrars will go belly-up long before the escrow system - also required by the accreditation contracts - is in place. You can take that to the bank.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re: Using WHOIS Policy To Snag Good Domain Names
    by jberryhill on Thursday September 05 2002, @08:33AM (#9062)
    User #3013 Info
    No, RGP relates to "redemption" of an unpaid registration. The 15 day period on rectifying bad whois data is a black-and-white condition of the registrar accreditation agreement. Take the UDRP, for example, if a "cancellation" is ordered in a UDRP proceeding, they aren't going to sit around and wait 30 days RGP or no RGP.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re: Book Deal?
    by fnord (reversethis-{moc.oohay} {ta} {k2yorg}) on Thursday September 05 2002, @10:12AM (#9069)
    User #2810 Info
    A book, even a publish on demand book or ebook from John Berryhill would be great. With his ability to see issues from numerous angles no-one else seems to think of, his writing style, and some of the wacky things he's seen and done (hey, it seems to have expired and been picked up by someone in China, mebbe the original registrant? LOL!), it would have to come with a disclaimer to empty bladder before reading. -g
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
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