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    This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
    Will The Internet Melt? | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 72 comments | Search Discussion
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    Conspiracy Theories
    by Anonymous on Tuesday June 22 2004, @08:15PM (#13793)
    Lauren was on the Art Bell show a short while ago talking this up.

    That's right, Art Bell. And Lauren played it up as a huge conspiracy and pontificated upon how the sky was falling.

    I lost all respect at that point, and chose not to attend as a result.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    This is a Dave Farber Event - For Postel Followers
    by Anonymous on Tuesday June 22 2004, @09:08PM (#13794)
    This is a Dave Farber Event - For Postel Followers

    Dave Farber helped to secretly create ICANN.
    He was Jon Postel's Ph.D. thesis advisor.
    One of Dave Farber's companies operates the .ORG cash-cow, and 20+ other TLDs. Dave Farber
    claims to be a university professor. He was
    employed by the FCC during the Clinton regime.
    He parlayed his U.S. Government position, and
    cronyism with Jon Postel into monopoly control
    over TLDs.

    It is ironic that Dave Farber was also one of
    the prime people advocating that the U.S.
    Government DOJ should bring down the evil
    empire Bill Gates created, called Microsoft.
    Dave Farber claimed Microsoft has monopoly

    Dave Farber does not seem to be concerned about
    having monopoly control of .ORG. Could that be
    because .ORG is being removed from modern
    (sell-to-the-market) root zones ?

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Will the Internet Meltdown ?
    by Anonymous on Wednesday June 23 2004, @05:51AM (#13795)
    Will the Internet Meltdown ?

    That depends on what you consider to be "the Internet".

    If you consider "the Internet" to be the corrupt legacy system controlled by academic/government cronies, who have devised ways to quietly tax the netizens and restrain trade and prevent innovation, *of course* that Internet will Meltdown. It should.

    The North American free marketplace has no interest in supporting (funding) *that* Internet.

    Third-world countries may still be conned into being part of that aging Internet. They may still be wowed by visits from senile academics who tell them the Internet is for everyone. A new generation of netizens, especially in North America, will build around the edges and ignore the melting core.

    In an ironic twist, it is **education** which helps the new generation of netizens route around the legacy core. That education does not come from the people funded to provide that education. The funded educators are too busy protecting their funding to educate students. The students are left to find education via the .NET and they easily discover the corruption at the core of their educational system and learn to route around it.

    The sum total of enlightened people, educating themselves, and making the discoveries and routing around the corrupt core, renders the core irrelevant. The network of enlightened people, then form the .NET, and **that** is viewed by those enlightened people as THE Internet. It is their Internet. They own the PCs and Servers and in many cases, there are no wires or fibers needed to connect them.

    The old-school clerics and zealots and people with little propeller driven beanies can gather and pontificate about what is *the Internet*. They can also debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. As long as they waste their time and stay far away from the real Internet, the damage they do is minimal.

    The key is education and another key is to make sure that netizens are not working to fund the melting core. People are voting with their time and dollars. That causes the core to melt faster.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    It's an old line...
    by dtobias (dan@tobias.name) on Wednesday June 23 2004, @06:49AM (#13796)
    User #2967 Info | http://domains.dan.info/
    ...familiar to long-time followers of newsgroups and other online forums:

    "Death of Internet predicted... film at 11."

    (Sometimes "Usenet" is used instead of "Internet", for newsgroup discussions.)
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    "mistakes could take down network infrastructure"
    by Anonymous on Wednesday June 23 2004, @06:57AM (#13797)

    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg05556. html

    "In other words, customer is asking a court to rule whether or not IP space
    should be portable, when an industry-supported organization (ARIN) has
    made policy that the space is in fact not portable. It can be further
    argued that the court could impose a TRO that would potentially negatively
    affect the operation of my network.

    NAC does not want to be forced to rely on a customer's ability to properly
    make complex routing updates that if done improperly could disrupt the entire
    NAC network. We believe there is a great danger to NAC that their routing
    mistakes could take down some or all of our network infrastructure."
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    When Bill Gates Invented the Internet
    by Anonymous on Wednesday June 23 2004, @08:04AM (#13800)
    When Bill Gates Invented the Internet all he had was a program called Command.COM. That is where .COM comes from. He called his Command.COM program an Operating System and people believed him.

    Since people are so gullible, it looks like it is time to start a .NET movement. Maybe .NET should be called an Operating System. That strategy seemed to work last time.

    Chapter One

    When Bill Gates invented the .NET

    --to be continued--

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    .NET Moving into OLD AGE and Senile Minds
    by Anonymous on Wednesday June 23 2004, @08:29AM (#13801)
    Vint Cerf: Net's moving into iron age

    Internet pioneer Vint Cerf contends that the Internet is still
    early in its evolution, in the process of moving from a figurative
    stone age to an iron age. Cerf, who is senior vice president of
    technology strategy at MCI, stewards the Net in his role as ICANN
    chairman. In our recent Face to Face interview, Cerf talked with me
    about the Internet's future and outlined his views on spam, privacy,
    IPv6 and interplanetary networking. He also answered the question,
    "Who should run the Internet?"
    http://ct.com.com/click?q=fa-FmqNQhO3Y5MZZIF1tKYlo JWpeLsR
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    No Meltdown, But Severely Limited
    by Anonymous on Wednesday June 23 2004, @02:22PM (#13805)
    Spam is a huge problem. Important email is now routinely deleted, unread, because it's hard to siphon through 300 spam emails every morning without accidentally deleting important non-spam messages.

    New TLDs are hardly known, and largely held by speculators, severely hindering development in the .info, .biz, and .us arenas. The registries have evaded their responsibilities to market their respective TLDs, but they also just laugh it off, knowing ICANN will do nothing about it.

    You can poopoo these points all you want, but they are true. Vint Cerf rationalizes ICANN's lack of action on these issues with some nonsense about how the Internet is in its infancy ... blah blah blah. 20+ years old doesn't sound like infancy to me.

    So no, there will be no "meltdown", but there is surely a stunted growth factor. Until cancers like spam and unworthy registries are excoriated from the Internet, progress will be measured in everso tiny increments.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    What TLDs Does Dave Farber Operate ?
    by Anonymous on Thursday June 24 2004, @06:47AM (#13807)
    What TLDs Does Dave Farber Operate ?

    Can someone provide a complete list ?


    They claim to operate over 20 TLDs.
    Are they including all of the New.Net TLDs ?

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    .KIDS Continue to be Used as .PAWNS in DNS Wars
    by Anonymous on Thursday June 24 2004, @09:25PM (#13809)
    .KIDS Continue to be Used as .PAWNS in DNS Wars

    http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2004/kidsus forum_06172004.htm
    Commerce to Host July 14 Forum on Child-Friendly Web Sites

    Forum Will Showcase Development of New .kids.us Web Sites

    The Commerce Department’s National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) will host a half‑day forum from 9:00 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 to discuss the development of the .kids.us Internet domain, which is home to a number of child-friendly Web sites. The forum will detail the current uses and applications of the domain and the development of attractive future content for the space.

    “.Kids.us holds great promise as a place where parents and children can turn for content that is free from inappropriate material,” said Acting Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Communications and Information Michael D. Gallagher. “This forum will bring together a number of those involved in the development of child-friendly content to showcase the potential of those Web sites for parents and educators and what is being done to develop content that appeals to kids.”

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    ICANN will be told to "take a hike" in ASPEN
    by Anonymous on Friday June 25 2004, @09:48AM (#13817)
    ICANN will be told to "take a hike" in ASPEN

    http://www.pff.org/aspensummit/aspen2004/registrat ion.html [pff.org]

    H-P, Warner Execs. to Open Aspen Summit Aug 22-24 Event Focuses on Future of the Internet WASHINGTON D.C. - Barry M. Meyer, chairman and CEO of Warner Brothers Entertainment, and Shane V. Robison, EVP and chief strategy and technology officer of Hewlett-Packard Company, will deliver opening keynote speeches at the 10th annual Aspen Summit sponsored by The Progress & Freedom Foundation. Both executives will speak on Sunday, August 22, the first day of the three-day gathering of top Internet and technology leaders in Aspen, Colorado.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    by Anonymous on Saturday June 26 2004, @08:17PM (#13819)
    Michael Moore ought to consider doing a film titled "Fahrenheit ICANN".
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    hard a port
    by fnord (groy2kNO@SPAMyahoo.com) on Sunday June 27 2004, @09:24AM (#13820)
    User #2810 Info
    ICABN thru IANA has responsibility for port numbers. Modern virii, trojans, worms, et al enter via open ports. Why can't Vinton deal with this problem by making most ports illegal? -g
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    In IRELAND to Promote American Jobs ??
    by Anonymous on Monday June 28 2004, @05:52AM (#13821)
    The U.S. DOC has clearly learned to play the
    Internet Society game. Let's all go to Ireland
    and create companies (like Afilias) and launder
    all of the profits thru Ireland and Swiss bank
    accounts while creating the illusion that this
    creates jobs (not wealth) in the U.S.

    http://www.commerce.gov/opa/press/2004_Releases/Ju ne/25_Evans_ireland_release.htm

    Friday, June 25, 2004


            IRELAND –U.S. Commerce Secretary Donald L. Evans is in Ireland to participate in the U.S.-E.U. Summit and will meet with the Transatlantic Business Dialogue (TABD) to discuss ways to increase investment and create a barrier-free transatlantic market to help grow American jobs.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Can a Customer take their IP's with them?
    by Anonymous on Tuesday June 29 2004, @03:42AM (#13823)

    Read the rest of this comment...

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Let Verisign Read All Your e-mail ?
    by Anonymous on Tuesday June 29 2004, @04:15AM (#13825)
    If ICANN adopts this service, Verisign could read
    all of the e-mail sent to/from ICANN to help Verisign
    build their cases in court against ICANN, which
    Verisign funds.

    http://www.computerweekly.com/articles/article.asp ?liArticleID=131608

    VeriSign introduces e-mail, antiphishing services

    "To use the service, VeriSign customers will modify the mail exchange (or 'MX') record for their e-mail domain to point to VeriSign's Email Security Service servers."
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Will ICANN be doing Be-Headings Next ?
    by Anonymous on Wednesday June 30 2004, @07:52AM (#13831)
    Will ICANN be doing Be-Headings Next ?

    Back in the Jon Postel days, Jon supported people
    [via his IAHC committee] who publicly advocated
    that people should be "be-headed" for opposing
    the IANA and the Internet Society.

    Don Heath, the President of the ISOC called the
    postings "colorfull". The rest of the IAHC story
    is history.

    Now, Vinton Cerf, the Chairman of ICANN is calling
    for public flogging of people that he suggests
    people entrap via sting operations. You can
    listen to his video taped comments.


    Why is the U.S. Government supporting such a
    monster as Vinton Cerf ?

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    The ARIN Litigation War Chest of Cash Opens Up
    by Anonymous on Thursday July 01 2004, @07:18PM (#13845)

    Read the rest of this comment...

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    .ORG is Any-Casted Network Operators are Clueless
    by Anonymous on Friday July 02 2004, @05:00AM (#13848)
    .ORG is Any-Casted Network Operators are Clueless

    People who claim they are Network Operators are
    clueless when it comes to the simple fact that
    the .ORG TLD servers have been Any-Casted.

    http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg05979. html

    Being Any-Casted means that there are not really
    any specific .ORG TLD Servers, but instead a
    couple of IP addresses which are located BEHIND
    ISP's firewalls (or on the firewall/server itself).

    ifconfig eth0:0
    ifconfig eth0:1

    All .ORG traffic is then kept local in the ISP
    or the country. For large, walled-garden, services
    like AOL, MSN, etc. they can control what .ORG
    names are visible. They could also charge .ORG
    owners a fee to be visible or maybe a fee to
    be not listed. Note, people pay phone companies
    to not be listed.

    Note, the ICANN Board and that special team
    of ICANN **experts** called the Security team
    also have no clue how Any-Cast impacts .ORG.
    Apparently, they approved the approach in secret
    in conjunction with the Internet Society and
    that sham .ORG company, PIR-something which
    has a bunch of advisors that also know very
    little about the DNS and Any-Cast.

    Now, network operators are seeing wide-spread .ORG operational problems and they do not know
    why. As usual, ICANN is silent on technical
    matters which of course are discussed in secret.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    China Goes with IPv9 Thumb Nose at ISOC
    by Anonymous on Friday July 02 2004, @06:37AM (#13852)
    The ISOC insiders (Cerf, Crocker, etc.) have
    recently been making the rounds in China attempting
    to sell them on the ISOC's poorly designed and
    deployed IPv6 protocol.

    China now is sending Cerf and the ISOC a clear
    answer, which often is not presented in person.

    http://www.chinatechnews.com/index.php?action=show &type=news&id=1405
    China's New Generation Of Ipv9 Network Technology Ready
    July 2, 2004

    At the New Generation Internet Ten-Digit Network Industrialization & Development Seminar held on June 25th at Zhejiang University, it was announced that China's Internet technology, IPv9, had been formally adapted and popularized into the civil and commercial sectors.

    One has to wonder if Vinton Cerf will be calling
    for the public flogging of all Chinese people
    in the U.S. ?


    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    I plan to retire from this effort - Sure Sure RSN
    by Anonymous on Friday July 02 2004, @08:11PM (#13859)
    Subject: Response to John Gilmore
    To: dave@farber.net, Declan McCullagh
    From: "Joe Sims"
    Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:15:56 -0400

    Since John Gilmore chooses to use my name in his imaginary history of how
    we got to where we are, I thought it would be appropriate to lay out the
    real facts. Since both of you published the original interview, perhaps
    you would think it appropriate to publish this response.

    Perhaps Gilmore once had (or maybe still has)something to offer of value,
    but that does not include either political science or history. In the
    World According to Gilmore, Vint Cerf is a traitor, Jon Postel was a
    coward, and ICANN is just another manifestation of the military-industrial
    complex at work. Karl Auerbach is the modern day Martha Mitchell (I agree
    there is some resemblance), and Joe Sims has single-handedly manipulated
    this process to earn enormous fees for him and his law firm. It makes for
    a great story, and to people like Gilmore, and publications like Salon, I
    suppose it is just an inconvenience that it is almost total fantasy.

    Let's get rid of the greedy lawyer canard up front. This point simply
    reveals Gilmore's lack of understanding of the law business. I was fully
    occupied before I was retained by Jon Postel, and would also be so today if
    I was not representing ICANN. The notion that I or Jones Day, which
    provided more than $1 million of pro bono time to Jon Postel, and has since
    the formation of ICANN provided its services at cost, is doing this for
    money is a joke. For one thing, there is not enough money in the world to
    put up with the unadulterated BS of Gilmore and his more personally
    offensive colleagues. The opportunity to avoid the daily garbage spewed out
    by those, like Gilmore, that either don't know better or don't care what
    the real facts are, is highly appealing to me. As I have already
    indicated, as soon as this reform process has reached a point where I feel
    that I can retreat from this warzone, I plan to retire from this effort.

    RSN - Real Soon Now

    Note: Joe Simms is billing ICANN at full rates
    in the current Verisign litigation.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re: Who broke .org?
    by Anonymous on Saturday July 03 2004, @08:32AM (#13863)
    Re: Who broke .org?

            * From: Jeff Wasilko
            * Date: Sat Jul 03 11:24:39 2004

    On Sat, Jul 03, 2004 at 06:45:44AM -0700, Bill Woodcock wrote:
    > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Jeff Wasilko wrote:
    > > Can't we just go back to non-anycast, please?
    > Uh, how much additional down-time did you want? Rolling the clock back a
    > decade isn't going to make things _better_.

    Why do you say that? .com and .net seem to work just fine without the extreme reliance
    on 2 anycasted servers (i.e. they are serving up 13 different NS records).
    I realize .com/.net may be using anycast as well, but they've
    managed to engineer a solution that is stable. .org was pretty reliable when it was being run by the same folks that are
    still running .com/.net. .org broke one month after it was moved to UltraDNS, and has
    since broken at least 4 times (based on reports to NANOG). How
    many times have there been significant outages in .com/.net in
    the past 10-11 months?

    Wouldn't there be a huge uproar (a-la sitefinder) if .com/.net
    were as unreliable as .org has been?

    -j (wishing his domain wasn't in .org anymore)

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    ARIN ***allows*** ISPs - ISPs are the customers
    by Anonymous on Saturday July 03 2004, @09:33PM (#13866)
    ARIN is now making laws (ARIN laws) which only
    allow ISPs to do things ARIN wants the ISPs to
    do, such as look up information via only certain
    services and servers. ISPs are supposed to be
    the **customer**. ARIN treats them like an
    annoyance or a prisoner.


    "In the future, there may be other distributed lookup services that
    ARIN may allow ISPs to use. These new services must be approved by
    ARIN before being allowed to serve as a repository for reassignment

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    New Reality Internet Show Launching July 26 ?
    by Anonymous on Sunday July 04 2004, @09:49AM (#13871)
    New Reality Internet Show Launching July 26 ?

    Unsuspecting control-freaks and ISOC uber-thugs
    are being invited to gather in LA for the
    launching of a new Reality Internet Show.

    Who will be the first to be voted ON TO the ICANN Board ? and OFF the show and .NET.

    Will anyone notice Esther appearing from time
    to time in sophisticated disguises accompanied
    by Jon ?


    Internet Governance, Control, and Coordination

    - PFIR: Welcome and Overview
    - Scott Bradner (Harvard University): Internet Governance Issues
    - Frannie Wellings (EPIC and Public Voice): WSIS
    - Richard Hill (ITU): Discussions of Internet Governance
    - Susan P. Crawford (Cardozo School of Law): The Accountable Net Concept
    - Karl Auerbach: Beyond ICANN and DNS
    - Howard Schmidt (Former White House Deputy Cybersecurity Czar): Cybersecurity Futures
    - Maria Shkarlat (InterNews/Ukraine): Threats to Internet Viability in the Former Soviet Union
    Paul Vixie (ISC)
    Brad Templeton (EFF)
    Brett Glass
    Jim Horning (McAfee Research)
    Lauren Weinstein (PFIR)
    Ed Felten (Princeton University)
    Michael Froomkin (University of Miami School of Law)
    Wendy Seltzer (EFF)
    Carrie Lowe (ALA)

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Yet Another Secret Deal Going on Behind the Scenes
    by Anonymous on Wednesday July 07 2004, @09:30PM (#13891)
    Under the terms of the current ASO Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), the next election for an Asia-Pacific seat on the ASO Address Council is due to be held during the APNIC 18 meeting in Fiji in September 2004.

    However, the Number Resource Organization (NRO) and ICANN have signed a letter of intent to form a new ASO MoU, which is expected to finalised sometime in the next few months.

    This new MoU will have implications for the structure of the Address Council, and therefore, the APNIC Executive Council has decided to defer the AC election, pending a final outcome in the MoU negotiations.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Your .ORG Tax Dollars at Work or Not Work
    by Anonymous on Friday July 09 2004, @12:24PM (#13902)
    How the Pork (or PORG) will be spread around.

    Randy Bush and John Klensin are of course the shadow figures behind the "Network Startup Resource Center". Funding (Pork) from the U.S. National Science Foundation has paid for their fun and games for years.

    http://www.pir.org/news/ [pir.org]


    Geneva, Switzerland - The Internet Society (ISOC) recently held the first in a series of new workshops for country code Top Level Domain (ccTLD) operators.

    The success of the event was due to the enthusiasm of all who participated and to the efforts of organiser Mirjam Kuehne (ISOC), instructors Lucy Lynch (University of Oregon), Joe Abley and Suzanne Woolf (ISC), Frederico Neves (Registro.br), Jaap Akkerhuis (SIDN), John Crain (IANA/ICANN), Olaf Kolkman (RIPE NCC) and Alain Aina (Technologies Reseaux & Solutions, Togo). Event hosting and administrative support was provided by the RIPE NCC and Michiel Leenaars of the ISOC Netherlands chapter.

    ----------------- This has to be the best part.

    "Participants had the opportunity to learn not only how to set up the required technical infrastructure, but also how to interact with bodies such as IANA and ICANN - the practical details of knowing who to talk to"

    Translation: Just talk to "the right people".

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    the true agenda of the "Meltdown"
    by Anonymous on Tuesday July 27 2004, @10:40AM (#14044)
    Ah, so the true agenda of the "Meltdown" Conference comes out, NAT (IPv8) Bashing.

    And of course, the .EDU Postel People arrive
    with a non-viable solution that will never
    compete with the IPv9 (Cisco/Linksys) Routers
    now flowing out of China.

    July 26, 2004
    Preventing the Internet Meltdown
    I'm in LA at PFIR's "Preventing the Internet Meltdown" conference. I'll report here (when the NATted Net isn't melting down), and I'd also be watching Susan Crawford, Ed Felten, Mary Bridges, Karl Auerbach, and Michael Froomkin.

    Posted by Wendy at July 26, 2004 12:04 PM | TrackBack

    On Monday, the first day of Preventing the Internet Meltdown, as Wendy reports above, the NAT melted the Internet access down.

    It has been unfortunate that there has been so little discussion of current meltdowns like this. NATs are like the weather; everyone talks about them, but nobody seems to do anything about them.

    FYI, I installed USC/ISI's TetherNet (http://www.isi.edu/tethernet ) to restore network connectivity, as a bit of 'climate control'. TetherNet connects to a NAT'd Internet connection and un-does what a NAT does. The room has since been on the _real_ Internet, with real, routable IP addresses, forward _and_ reverse DNS, etc.


    Posted by: on July 27, 2004 08:56 AM

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]

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