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    Highlights of the ICANNWatch Archive
    (June 1999 - March 2001)

    This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
    Anonymous ICANNwatch Messages Considered Harmful? | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 65 comments | Search Discussion
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    The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
    By Paul Vixie | Posted on May 20, 2004
    by Anonymous on Friday June 04 2004, @10:40AM (#13680)
    By Paul Vixie | Posted on May 20, 2004 @ 10:54 PM PST

    Karl is smart enough to know the difference between an A RR and an NS RR, so his apparently-deliberate mincing of those terms mystifies me. Any network owner can control their own DNS simply by ensuring that their clients all use a local "root cache" file which points only at local "root name servers". And Karl knows that I am a passionate champion of the right of network owners to exercise this kind of control.

    On the other hand, f-root's address ( is part of ISC's netblock ( and if a network owner decided to pirate that address because they lacked control over their customers' "root cache" files, then ISC would treat this as an unlawful communications intercept and we would take action.

    Communications between consenting parties should never be prevented. But the only reason a network owner could have for pirating (f-root) is if they do *not* have the consent of their own customers to operate a modified DNS namespace.

    If Karl believes that all root name servers ought to live on pirateable addresses then let him petition IANA to renumber the root name servers onto such addresses. But it's very odd to see Karl imply that because f-root's address is used for root name service, it ought to be legal to pirate it.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:By Paul Vixie | Posted on May 20, 2004
    by KarlAuerbach on Saturday June 05 2004, @02:09PM (#13700)
    User #3243 Info | http://www.cavebear.com/
    It's pretty much standard language out of ARIN, RIPE, APNIC, LACNIC and ICANN that IP addresses (and the blocks that hold them) are not owned. Of course that's merely an assertion.

    But I have rarely heard anyone claim that an IP address is required to be unique and that folks are legally prevented from creating local instances of an address. It is an axiom of faith that the acceptance of routing information is purely voluntary, the fact that packets reach your block is merely an aspect of that voluntary acceptance of routing information by most, if not all, ISPs and not a necessary result of the allocation of a netblock to you.

    What I hear you claiming is that anyone who sets up a DNS server at the f-root address is somehow engaged in a legally actionable misrepresentation. If so, who is being harmed, the user or the f-root "owner"? And what is that nature of that harm?

    You claim it is an "unlawful communications intercept" to have a local instance of the f-root server address? That is a rather bold assertion that makes many assumptions. The first is that somehow the packet was intended for the f-root server as opposed to simply one of a class of fungible servers that offer authoritative answers to root zone queries. The second is that it is an "intercept", much less that it is "unlawful" (which of course raises the question of "under the laws of what jurisdiction?")

    The root servers are a wonderful service - and I thank you for your contribution. But your claim of ownership is quite a reach. And as a member of the internet community, the apparent lack of information regarding the financial condition underlying the continued operation of the f-root group is troublesome (it would be useful for you to post the IRS 990s, which are, public documents.)

    Your claim that there shall be no DNS service on except yours strikes me as a landgrab not much different than Versign's Sitefinder - it is an assertion of private power over a privileged spot in the internet infrastructure.

    What you are claiming is that internet users are not to be allowed to route around your service. You are the beneficiary of a conjunction of voluntary routing decisions. You seem to now be demanding that such decisions are no longer voluntary but must be coerced in your favor. That is something that I do not accept as a good thing for the internet nor do I see any legal throries that would support such a claim.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
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